Jumping in late here... Has it been demonstrated in any valid way that the test was, in fact, flawed. Or is it merely a case of the results pointing to the possibility of a flawed test?
From my limited knowledge, it appears that the city said "This is the criteria used to determine promotions." and when the results came back and too many people of ... Read Morethe "wrong" race met the criteria, the criteria were changed. Without demonstration that the original criteria were flawed, it seems to be flagrantly a matter of discrimination.
J responds:
(as often happens, I don't get to my point until I ramble through a lot of "thinking out loud." As I occasionally do, I'm reposting the conclusion at the top because I think it contains a brief summary of all the words I wander through to get there. So feel free to read the whole thing, but here's the gist:)
So I argue: can one have a test that discriminates along race but is not itself discrimination or resulting from the structures of racism? I think this is unlikely. And if it is possible to use an alternative but equally or more valid test of ability that doesn't divide along race, how does that compare to the original? If the original is fair does that make the alternative "hyper-fair"? Or if the alternative is equally or more valid, does that mean the original is discriminatory? I think this is an important question to ask. Some argue that looking at the result they got in terms of race and saying you will re-test is discriminatory in itself. I argue that looking at the result and not re-assessing the evaluation to see if there's a better way to do it is racist, because if there's a better way to do it that doesn't end up segregating racially, that seems to de facto mean the original way is flawed. I mean, they can't both be true, can they? If one test yields more racially balanced results, and is a reasonable test of ability, but another test yields racially segregatory results, can this other test also be considered a reasonable test? How can two reasonable tests give different results? And if two reasonable tests do give different results but one favors racial equality, is it racist to demand that test be used (or at least such industry-common alternatives tried)? How do we analyze a situation like this (which seems likely to be what would happen)?
I will say that I'm somewhat rather swayed that those who prepped for the test extensively are owed some kind of recompense, because institutional racism is not their fault, but I don't know that they're owed a promotion. (And if I were ruling the world, the way they'd get recompense would likely be cuts in everyone's salary to pay for a proportional compensation for them, since it is everyone's responsibility in society to agitate for racial equality, though of course in real life, this would just make everyone hate everyone... though that seems to be likely in this case anyway.)
Well I'd challenge you on that EssEee, though I'm fairly sure you'll still disagree. The criteria for discrimination is "disparate impacts", that is, if different races are affected differently, there's a prima facie reason (to my understanding) for assuming discrimination. This was instituted such that people couldn't (consciously or unconsciously) ... Read Morediscriminate after Jim Crow was struck down by trying to tailor tests towards one race. It seems fairly clear, in this case, it *was* tailored towards whites, completely inadvertently, given that it tested (seemingly) esoteric knowledge of the characteristics of fire over practical experience, and the whites were MUCH more likely to be nth generation firefighters, and therefore to possess (or have easy access to) such knowledge.
To me the question I suppose is what do you count as discrimination? The biggest problem this day & age is institutional racism, imho, which is racism inherent in the structures of the society we've built today. You don't have 300+ years of de jure racism without a lot of de facto racism becoming part of the culture and its institutions. To me, there's a good argument for looking at all institutions critically from the standpoint of race & sex, because they were founded on assumptions of inequality, and getting rid of the *rules* of inequality doesn't ... Read Morechange that the institution was founded in it and therefore is likely to have understructures of power favoring one race or sex. In any case, the argument is that if a test affects one race completely differently than another (as seems the case here), it's likely there's a discriminatory factor. After all, there are 3 Occam's Razor type conclusions to be drawn: 1) The white firefighters are inherently more qualified (as measured by the test); 2) they worked harder as a group than Latinos and Blacks; 3) the test (likely unintentionally) exploited factors that aligned racially. The fourth, that it's random chance, seems unlikely given the numbers.
And one has to admit, I think, it's quite possible that the test did discriminate based on racially-aligned factors that are non-obvious . (I guess one of a more libertarian ilk might argue that's tough crap, that society is only responsible for intentional racism and inadvertently racially-aligned factors are not germane, but I could go on for two... Read More pages on why I think that's completely faulty reasoning.)
I guess I'd pose a couple questions on this basis: 1) Is it possible for the city to want to redo the test, purely based on race, because the test *in its results* seemingly discriminated? Aren't results that break too-neatly on racial lines automatically suspect, whatever the cause? In effect, is wanting to redo it simply because not too many of the "wrong" race met the criteria but because only ONE of the non-white races qualified? After all, that's the issue -it's not that the wrong people won, it's that one race all but COMPLETELY dominated promotions. 2) If it is automatically racist to want to redo it just because the test broke down (I would bet) non-randomly along the lines of race? (That is, I bet the chances of getting these results at random from a fair test is very low, so one must assume systematically lower qualifications among the blacks and hispanics or assume the test is inherently unfair.) If this is true, that it is racist to redo the test simply because a not representative enough x-section was promoted, in otherwise, racism can happen in advancement of a fair goal (equality in promotion), then it seems to me it must be equally true that it is inadvertent racism to presume a test is fair and that blacks and hispanics were systematically under-qualified. That is, if it's racist in the pursuit of diversity to re-do a test that, unintentionally or not, strictly divivded on racial lines, then to me it is equally (if not more) tenable to argue that a test that strictly divides along racial lines is de facto racist, unless it can be shown that there's not a different, equally or more valid way to conduct the test that does not break down on racial lines.
In the end, that is my understanding from Richard Thompson Ford of the law -- if there is a way to do it that does not break down racially that is equally or more valid, then it is discriminatory to use the method that does break down along racial lines, even if unintentionally. To me, there are two burdens of proof, a different one for each side: for those who want to redo the test, that the test is unfair in some way; for those that want to follow the results, to prove that the reason it broke down racial lines is skill-related. If both sides fail to prove their contention, I'd argue that the compelling interest of society in having its services reflect its own diversity carries the day. All this is to say, I would (I have to admit, at least now that I've considered all the factors) have to say it would be equally racist if only blacks passed and the test wasn't reconsidered. I mean, think of that -- would you assume the test was fair if only blacks and hispanics succeeded in promotions and only one, or no, white people succeeded? I would think that's suspicious on its face as well.
In the end, I think it is simply wishful thinking to equate "discriminating" in order to achieve racial balance the same as doing so to achieve segregation. One cannot correct a society that was biased along color lines through a color blind approach. You cannot expect all social starting points to be equal while Jim Crow (legal segregation) is still within easily living memory. MLK, often quoted for his "dream" of all living in harmony, did not seem to believe this would be achieved through colorblindness:
Many of the ugly pages of American history have been obscured and forgotten. A society is always eager to cover misdeeds with a cloak of forgetfulness, but no society can fully repress an ugly past when the ravages persist into the present. America owes a debt of justice which it has only begun to pay. If it loses the will to finish or slackens in its determination, history will recall its crimes and the country that would be great will lack the most indispensable element of greatness — justice.
o Where Do We Go from Here : Chaos or Community? (1967), p. 109
Can it be this "debt of justice" can be paid simply by ignoring race? That doesn't sound like in any way paying a debt to me. He further said:
If a city has a 30% Negro population, then it is logical to assume that Negroes should have at least 30% of the jobs in any particular company, and jobs in all categories rather than only in menial areas.
o from a 1968 Playboy magazine interview
This is certainly an "argument from authority," but I use it because MLK is so often used to argue for a race-blind society. Can anyone doubt from those two quotes alone that he meant for an equal society to come about by not challenging any institution that has, say, a 30% black population but not 30% blacks at all levels? That he would say the solution to that is not action and re-examination of the method of determining it, but simply, I don't know, hard work and better luck next time?
have tried to make clear that it is wrong to use immoral means to attain moral ends. But now I must affirm that it is just as wrong, or perhaps even more so, to use moral means to preserve immoral ends.
This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to make real the promises of democracy. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path of racial justice. Now is the time to open the doors of opportunity to all of God's children. Now is the time to lift our nation from the quicksands of racial injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood.
So I argue: can one have a test that discriminates along race but is not itself discrimination or resulting from the structures of racism? I think this is unlikely. And if it is possible to use an alternative but equally or more valid test of ability that doesn't divide along race, how does that compare to the original? If the original is fair does that make the alternative "hyper-fair"? Or if the alternative is equally or more valid, does that mean the original is discriminatory? I think this is an important question to ask. Some argue that looking at the result they got in terms of race and saying you will re-test is discriminatory in itself. I argue that looking at the result and not re-assessing the evaluation to see if there's a better way to do it is racist, because if there's a better way to do it that doesn't end up segregating racially, that seems to de facto mean the original way is flawed. I mean, they can't both be true, can they? If one test yields more racially balanced results, and is a reasonable test of ability, but another test yields racially segregatory results, can this other test also be considered a reasonable test? How can two reasonable tests give different results? And if two reasonable tests do give different results but one favors racial equality, is it racist to demand that test be used (or at least such industry-common alternatives tried)? How do we analyze a situation like this (which seems likely to be what would happen)?
I will say that I'm somewhat rather swayed that those who prepped for the test extensively are owed some kind of recompense, because institutional racism is not their fault, but I don't know that they're owed a promotion. (And if I were ruling the world, the way they'd get recompense would likely be cuts in everyone's salary to pay for a proportional compensation for them, since it is everyone's responsibility in society to agitate for racial equality, though of course in real life, this would just make everyone hate everyone... though that seems to be likely in this case anyway.)
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